Getting your goals, answers to top money questions, and more with Dr. Jolley

The mind-money connection

It’s hard to hit what you can’t see—but having a vision can help you flourish.

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Bright Dickson (00:05):

Welcome to "Money and Mindset With Bright and Brian," a podcast to help you crush your money goals and boost your mindset along the way. I'm Bright Dickson, and I study ways people can become happier through positive psychology. I'm here today with my co-host, Brian Ford, who's a financial wellness expert and my personal Mr. Miyagi of money.

Brian Ford (00:25):

Mr. Miyagi of money, what?

Bright Dickson (00:28):

It makes me the Karate Kid, Brian, just to be clear.

Brian Ford (00:30):


Bright Dickson (00:31):

I'm the karate kid.

Brian Ford (00:32):


Bright Dickson (00:32):


Brian Ford (00:33):

That's pretty sweet, I dig that, that little title. I will take it. What an introduction. Thank you, Bright.

Brian Ford (00:41):

Today, Dr. Willie Jolley joins us again for a discussion about building wealth. Dr. Jolley is a bestselling author, speaker, singer, and host of the "Wealthy Ways" SiriusXM show and podcast. We're excited to chat with him about why it's important for you and your family to build wealth, and how to crush your financial goals. Then, we'll be discussing some of the most common money questions people ask.

Brian Ford (01:05):

Hey, Dr. Jolley, how you doing today?

Dr. Willie Jolley (01:07):

I am incredible. And I am grateful, I am grateful, I am grateful. Let me tell you something. I won the lottery today. I want to let you know I won the lottery today. And I'm so excited about that, folks. This is so good.

Dr. Willie Jolley (01:24):

Now, you're supposed to ask, well, how much money did you win Dr. Jolley?

Bright Dickson (01:27):

Yeah, how much money did you win Dr. Jolley?

Dr. Willie Jolley (01:30):

Oh, no, I didn't win any money. I woke up this morning, and I got another shot at life. And I won the lottery. And folks, so did you. I'll start with this, if you think you are beaten, you are. If you think you dare not, you don't. If you like to win, but you think you can't, it's almost a cinch you won't. So you gotta think big, and think bold, and be grateful. And that's what I am, so I'm grateful for this opportunity to be on with Bright and Brian, and to be part of this Truist Money and Mindset podcast. And so, I'm glad to be with y'all. Let's get it on.

Bright Dickson (02:13):

Oh, Dr. Jolley we're so grateful to be with you and we're so grateful for you.

Bright Dickson (02:18):

And listeners, before we jump in, just a reminder that you could submit questions, episode ideas, thoughts, anything you want to tell us about the show to Shoot us an email there, and maybe we'll discuss it on the show.

Bright Dickson (02:31):

All right, gentlemen, ready to get started?

Brian Ford (02:33):

Hey, let's do it.

Dr. Willie Jolley (02:34):

Let’s rock and roll.

Bright Dickson (02:42):

Dr. Jolley, what do you say to people who know they want to start building wealth, they want to sort of get there, but maybe they don't know quite where to start, exactly what to do. And I think there are people sort of at all levels of income who have this problem. So even from not having a bank account to having a six-figure income, sometimes we don't know where to start with really building wealth, because it's a different thing. What do you say to people, Dr. Jolley, when they want to start building wealth for themselves?

Dr. Willie Jolley (03:12):

First I say bravo, that you want, that you have a desire, that you have a mindset. That's why I love this podcast, "Money and Mindset With Bright and Brian."

Dr. Willie Jolley (03:25):

First, I want to applaud them 'cause they have a desire to become wealthy, but then you got to be mindful of the difference between being rich and being wealthy. It's a difference. And I want people to be mindful of that. So, first off is understanding that there is a difference and many people think they're the same. They are not. Rich is a result of what you do. You are a athlete, you can get rich. A singer, or a dancer, or a business person, you make money. You own a hair salon, you own a barbershop. You're getting money in your bank account, you're rich, you're becoming rich and that's fine.

Dr. Willie Jolley (04:07):

Wealthy is a result of what you own. Let me explain that. When you own a stock, it gives you a dividend. It grows in value. If you own property, and you're renting the property, it gives you a return on that investment. Rich is what you do. Wealthy is what you own. And when you get money that is a result of what you own, then you are creating wealth. So, that same person who has the barbershop, even though he's working in the barbershop, or a lady owns a beauty shop, if they're renting booths, or renting chairs to others who pay them, then they're on their way to becoming wealthy. Now that's first of all, that you have a desire, that you understand what's different between rich and wealthy.

Dr. Willie Jolley (04:54):

And then, that you make a commitment that you live below your means. I cannot say this enough, live below your means. If you make $1, learn to live on less than that dollar, if you make $100, learn to live on less than that $100. You make $100,000, live on less than whatever you make. And invest the rest after.

Dr. Willie Jolley (05:19):

Now, I've got a formula, folks. Let me give you my formula. My formula is for every dollar I get, I give a dime. I tithe a dime, I give it, I pour it, I percent it out, because you don't want to eat your seed. A good, plump farmer does not eat his seed. So the first dime I give, I tithe, I give away. The second dime, I save, I save, I save a dime. The third dime, I invest in something that I may use. What kind of car do you drive? You should invest in that. What kind of phone do you use? You should invest in that company. What kind of store do you go to often? Invest in that company. What kind of tennis shoe do you wear that you like? Invest in that company.

Dr. Willie Jolley (06:01):

You can buy now shares of a portion of the stock price. You can get it in distributed costs, and you can get it in little pieces of the stock. You can get it with $10. You can get it with $50. You can get it with $5. So, 10% give, 10% save, 10% invest. And I learn to live on what's left.

Brian Ford (06:24):

Love it. I'm digging this, Dr. Jolley. This is good stuff.

Brian Ford (06:27):

I want to go back to what you just mentioned around rich versus wealthy. I like this conversation. When I think of rich, and you were talking about it's kind of what you do, I think of that as your income, it's a lifestyle. But if you make a good amount of money, that's wonderful. But if you're spending it all, again, it's just what you do. It's your lifestyle versus wealthy, which I think of as your net worth, it's the actual assets that you're accumulating. And sometimes I let people know, net worth, it's a very important calculation when it comes to personal finance. But I often ask people, if I'm looking at your net worth, which is really important, and I can see all your assets, and I can see all your liabilities, I often ask them, do I know how much money you make for a living? And the answer is no.

Brian Ford (07:09):

So one of the most important calculations having to do with personal finance, which is your net worth, is independent of your income. I mean, I've seen people who make really good money. I mean, there was a CFO that I was speaking to one time and I was like, "Hey man, you realize your net worth here, it's negative?" And he was making loads of money. And I've talked to other folks that are like nurses, schoolteachers, and their net worth is fantastic because they actually own those things. So, I love that conversation. I think that's fantastic. And then, simply living below your means. And then just a simple outline of giving, saving, and investing. I dig it.

Brian Ford (07:45):

Well, look, let's keep going. Dr. Jolley, what are some steps that our listeners can take to get motivated about setting and achieving big financial goals?

Dr. Willie Jolley (07:54):

Wow, fantastic question. And I love that question 'cause I'm a goal setter, and I have a sign in my office that I have on a plaque that says, "Not only am I goal setter, I'm a goal getter." I want to go get those goals 'cause it's one thing to set them, but I want to achieve them. And the word achievement is an interesting word. And my other book coming out, "The New Theology of Achievement," in that book, I talk about the fact that achievement is different than just lucky success. Some people can buy a lottery ticket. They get lucky, they become millionaires, and bravo. Can you do it a second time, or a third time, or a fourth time? But achievers, once they understand the power of setting goals, can redo it because there's a principle-based process. And so, I'm encouraging people to become achievers and achievers take work. It takes work. So, you gotta set goals and then go get and make those goals into realities.

Dr. Willie Jolley (08:57):

Now, the power of setting goals to become wealthy is a process. And that process always starts with your vision. Scripture says, "Without a vision a people perish. But with a vision a people will flourish." And it also says that those people who have no goals, no vision, they will go in a circle. They'll be kind of aimless. But when you're clear on what your goals are, you can target what you're trying to do.

Dr. Willie Jolley (09:26):

So, let me tell you a quick exercise to help you with goals. Now, imagine I gave you a baseball. And the baseball, I put it in your hand, and you were standing outside your house. And I said, "Hit your house," and you threw it and hit the house with the baseball. OK, cool. Now, let's say I put a blindfold on you. And I turned you around, and around, and around, and around, and around, and around, and around. I put the baseball in and I say, "Now hit the house." Well, it's harder to hit the house 'cause you can't see where the house is. You might have your back to the house.

Dr. Willie Jolley (09:57):

So, it's hard to hit what you can't see. And it's even harder to hit what you do not know. That is why you must set goals, financial goals. How much money are you planning to make? Your financial goals, your health goals, your relationship goals, your spiritual goals. They're all goals that you have. At one point, I remember I said, "I got to have a plan. Well, I'm going to have a plan to be successful." But when I got mature, I realized I needed to have multiple plans. I need to have a financial plan. I need to have a family plan. I need to have a faith plan. I need to have a retirement plan. Come on, somebody. 'Cause look, I didn't think about retirement when I was 25 or 35. But let me tell you something folks, if you live long enough, you gonna one day need some money.

Dr. Willie Jolley (10:49):

And I've learned it's better to be rich when you're older than when you're younger. And it's better to be poor when you're younger than when you're older. So, you got to have a retirement plan. And all of those are goals that help you. And that's why I want people to listen to this podcast, because what you folks do, and I want to applaud you, Bright and Brian, for what you're doing. I want to applaud Truist for even having the vision, to be able to say, "You know what? We're gonna create some programming, some content that will impact people globally. They can get it anywhere." So everybody tell your friends about this. Tell your friends about this podcast with Bright and Brian. It will change their lives.

Bright Dickson (11:32):

Well, thanks Dr. Jolley. We're so lucky to have you.

Bright Dickson (11:35):

And Dr. Jolley, as you were talking, I was just thinking about the things that we want in life, they take attention, they take intention, and they take a lot of hard work, right? And as we move through that, things come up, people have questions. So Dr. Jolley, I want everybody to stay tuned because next we are going to ask you about your FAQs. What do people ask you? We'll be right back.

Brian Ford (11:59):

All right, Dr. Jolley, so we know you're not only a great motivational speaker, and also an author, but we have heard that you can hold a tune, that you are quite the singer/songwriter. So don't want to put you on the spot, but would you mind singing us a little jingle? Maybe one of your favorites.

Dr. Willie Jolley (12:24):

Oh my goodness, yes. In fact, I'll give you a couple of my favorites. I've done jingles for pizza places.

Dr. Willie Jolley (12:31):


Dr. Willie Jolley (12:32):

For shoe stores.

Dr. Willie Jolley (12:34):


Dr. Willie Jolley (12:36):

For television stations.

Dr. Willie Jolley (12:38):


Dr. Willie Jolley (12:40):

And I sung one for a mall that's become very popular on the East Coast.

Dr. Willie Jolley (12:53):


Dr. Willie Jolley (12:56):

So I sang a lot of jingles you've heard, and many more.

Brian Ford (13:00):

I love that.

Bright Dickson (13:01):

I love it, Dr. Jolley.

Brian Ford (13:03):

My family and I joke every once in a while, Dr. Jolley, that if I had a great voice and maybe even like a little falsetto where I could go up high, and I actually try to do that every once in a while around my kids. Yeah, it doesn't work. They just end up laughing at me.

Bright Dickson (13:20):


Brian Ford (13:22):

OK, Dr. Jolley, we are interested to know what are some of the questions you get from your listeners about money? And how do you answer them?

Dr. Willie Jolley (13:31):

Yeah, there are a lot of questions on the SiriusXM show. I'm in my 15th year on SiriusXM. And as I said, I'm just overwhelmed, blessed, just still cannot believe I have the number one self-help show in the country now on SiriusXM, the "Willy Jolley Wealthy Ways" show and podcast. You can hear it on Saturdays on SiriusXM channel 141, Saturdays at four o'clock Eastern. And then, it replays Tuesday and Thursdays, at 6:00 PM on channel 141. But then if you don't have XM, you can get the podcast.

Dr. Willie Jolley (14:02):

And I get a number of questions. Now, most people will email me the question. And folks, you can feel free to send me an email, go to and send me any question, if you like. But here are some of the questions we get over and over again. One is individual and one is for couples.

Dr. Willie Jolley (14:21):

So, at first is individual about money. How do you start a business so that you can make money and control your destiny? And I tell people I was blessed to be born in a house where I was encouraged to be two things: educated and entrepreneurial. My mom was a schoolteacher, so she was big on education. And I'm grateful. I have gone from high school to college and then, college to graduate school. And then, I took a long break while I was building my company. And then, went back to get my doctorate in 2012. And I'm very grateful I got my doctorate degree, and I earned it, and I'm grateful for the work it had. But that was 'cause of my mother's influence. She was big on education.

Dr. Willie Jolley (15:11):

My father was a journalist, a newspaper man. He was one of the first African American White House correspondents. And he was an entrepreneur. So, I'd love to tell this story that my mom and dad, we were growing up in a middle class household. My mom would get up in the morning and cook dinner. Then, she'd go off to school, and she'd leave around eight o'clock, and we'd eat breakfast. And then my brother and I would look at TV or whatever we did until about a quarter till nine, when my father would come up from his office and he would say, "OK guys, let's get ready." And then going around the corner to the school. So he would drive us, it was about three or four blocks to the school.

Dr. Willie Jolley (15:49):

Then, we hear the other little children and their parents. The parents would say to them, "OK Sally, remember what you're supposed to do today?" "Yes ma'am." "You're supposed to go to school." "Yes, ma'am." "Get a good education." "Yes, ma'am." "So, you can get a good job." "Yes, ma'am. I'm going to do that." "Great."

Dr. Willie Jolley (16:03):

And then, you hear another parent say to their child, "Billy, what are you going to do today?" "Well, I'm supposed to go to school, yeah. And get a good education so I can get a good job." "Very good. That's what you're supposed to do." Then my dad would say to my brother and I, "OK guys, what are you supposed to do today?" "We're supposed to go to school." "Yes." "And we're supposed to get a great education." "Yes." "So we could create some good jobs." And it created a mindset that I can control my destiny. And I can also determine my value in the marketplace.

Dr. Willie Jolley (16:36):

And so, that is a big part of the question, what is the key? The key is your input, write this one down folks, determines your output. Garbage in, garbage out. Good stuff in, good stuff out. You've got to make a decision, if you are going to create wealth, and create money, and create revenues that you start to work on your thinking, and your thinking is determined by your input, input, input. And so, you've got to read positive, uplifting, and financial literacy books. You've got to grow your thinking on money as well as on entrepreneurism, because this is a great place to be in America where you can live your dream.

Dr. Willie Jolley (17:19):

I can attest you do not have to be the brightest bulb in the pack to make a great living here in America. I can attest. See, I was the half of the class that made the top half of the high school class possible. Had it not been for me there would not have been a top half of the class. I was in the bottom half of the class all the time.

Bright Dickson (17:41):

Someone's got to do it, right?

Dr. Willie Jolley (17:42):

Somebody's got to do it.

Dr. Willie Jolley (17:43):

But one day I decided, that's the word I want y'all to get, decided I was gonna change. And I started working on my academic excellence. I started reading. I had not been a reader. I started working on my communication skills. I started working on myself. And folks, you can do this. You're talking to a guy who was not an honor roll student, but now who has written a number of bestselling books, who has been inducted in the Speaker Hall of Fame, who has been named one of the top five speakers in the world by Toastmasters International because I made a decision. I'm encouraging you to make a decision. So, that's one question.

Dr. Willie Jolley (18:23):

Other question is about relationships. As I told you, my wife and I have been married for going on, well, we'll be 40 years in not too long, we're at 37. Haven't had an argument in 35 years. And we wrote a book called, "Make Love, Make Money, Make It Last" that has become a very popular book. And we now have a Monday night online television program called "Make Love, Make Money, Make It Last: The Broadcast," where we answer relationship questions. And a lot of them deal with money 'cause there are three things that break up marriages: sex, money, and communication.

Dr. Willie Jolley (18:57):

And so, we talk about money and how money is important in marriage. 'Cause you're not just a love relationship. You are a merger of two individual entities. You're merging two entities. And what happens if one's a spender and one's a saver? What happens if one's a investor and one spends every dollar, what do you do? How do you align those? That's why you have to talk. Communication is critically important. And have communication, and get systems for your family just like you have systems for your own personal success and wealth that you're gonna have systems, you have a budget.

Dr. Willie Jolley (19:38):

So, we talk about three money mindsets. You get one pot, two pot, three pot. Now, one pot when you get married, typically people get married right out of high school, out of college, they got nothing. So, they usually pool all their resources into one pot. And one person will write the checks and then everything will come out of that one pot. But then, if you're a little older, we found it's age and stage. If you're a little older in life, maybe in your late twenties, or early thirties, that you've had maybe your first apartment, or you're paying a car note, or whatever, that you have a different mindset. So, then you get to two pot. And one person might take all the utilities. One person might take the mortgage, but that's kind of like roommates.

Dr. Willie Jolley (20:21):

We recommend, if you're going to have success in money is you have the three pot. Now, that's what my wife and I did. You're a little older. And so, in the three pot, you got money that I was used to having my own checking account. She was used to having her own checking account. But then, we created a third pot. So, we have her pot, my pot, and a third pot. And we both make a deposit into that pot. And we have a budget. And every month we deal with the budget, what is it going to have to cost to keep this house running?

Dr. Willie Jolley (20:49):

Now, she doesn't have to look at me if I want to buy a iPhone or some tech toy. And I don't have to look at her if she want to buy some shoes 'cause she got her little stash. But here's what we gonna do. There are no hidden agendas, one. No hidden accounts. And each one of us is on the other one's account. My name is listed. We know what's going on. But I don't deal with what she's buying over there. And she don't deal with what I'm buying over here. But we put our dealing and focus on that third pot where we come together. It will save your marriage. It'll save your relationship. It'll stop the arguing. And so, I highly recommend that's one of the things we've found to be very successful. If you communicate well, you have a better love life. You communicate well, you have a better financial life.

Brian Ford (21:32):

My wife and I just a couple weeks ago celebrated 22 years.

Dr. Willie Jolley (21:37):

Woo hoo, go ahead, my man.

Brian Ford (21:39):

I don't know if we're ever going to catch ya.

Dr. Willie Jolley (21:40):

No, you're gonna catch me. You're gonna catch me. One day you'll catch me, but it'll be a while. You got to keep working. Keep going.

Brian Ford (21:47):

Oh, we got lots of work to go. But I like this conversation about money and relationships. And it's interesting 'cause I know in our last episode we talked about values, the things that matter most to us.

Brian Ford (21:57):

And when you were talking about these various pots, it got me thinking that when I work with couples, I actually have them list out their values, or what they care most about, independent of one another. So, they do it separately. And then they come together and they say, "Ah OK, what are the things we have in common?" And that's kind of like your third pot because most of our hard-earned money should go towards the things that we both value a lot. But there's gonna be some things that I care about that my wife doesn't. And then the other way around. But we need to make allowances for those things because she values that even though I don't, and vice versa.

Brian Ford (22:31):

But now it's more of a conversation around money rather than an argument. And we're talking about what we really care about most in life, as opposed to just fighting over money. Because, usually, we're not fighting over these little green pieces of paper. We're fighting over what it represents, what we value, and what we can purchase with it. So, I think that's a great conversation.

Dr. Willie Jolley (22:50):

I applaud you, I applaud you. And that's great that you said that because many people don't realize that because you got married, and because you are now one unit, that you still have different values of what you value. You might value sports, your wife might not be into sports. So, it's important to you. I think that's so profound. And I want to applaud you on that.

Brian Ford (23:11):

I appreciate that.

Brian Ford (23:12):

I also like when you talked about, you said a very quick sentence when you were just chatting a minute ago. You were speaking about entrepreneurialism and you said, "I can determine the value I bring to the marketplace." And I love that.

Dr. Willie Jolley (23:24):


Brian Ford (23:25):

Sometimes people get too caught up in their IQ. Look, IQ's important, smart people make more money than dumb people. We get it. But it's not as important as people may think. And the research shows that it's not one of the most important things when it comes to managing money. But VQ, which stands for value quotient, how much value do you bring to the marketplace, does matter. How do we grow our VQ? And you outlined a nice map for that. I mean, you talked about the importance of education. Not just formal education but even after you get that degree, which is important, what are you gonna keep doing? What are you gonna keep learning? What are you gonna read next?

Brian Ford (23:59):

I thought it was a great conversation today. Thank you so much, Dr. Jolley. We appreciate you.

Dr. Willie Jolley (24:04):

Well, it's a joy, honor to be here. And thank you. And I like that VQ. I love that 'cause you do have to look at the problems you solve. If you don't solve problems, why do people need you? OK, so, you should be a problem solver for somebody. And the more problems you can solve, the more money you can make.

Bright Dickson (24:22):

I love that. Thanks Dr. Jolley.

Bright Dickson (24:25):

And thanks for listening to this episode of "Money and Mindset With Bright and Brian." Dr. Jolley, it was such a pleasure having you on Money and Mindset. And we're so glad you were here. Thank you so much. It was so fun.

Dr. Willie Jolley (24:36):

Oh, it's been a joy, it's been a privilege, and a pleasure, a treat and a treasure, and a joy beyond measure.

Dr. Willie Jolley (24:44):

Now, I want to encourage people, again, to subscribe to "Money and Mindset With Bright and Brian." And then go to and tell your friends to go there, and look up where they can even get more resources. This is a great new concept that Truist is pushing out. And I am so grateful for them and all of the folks at Truist who have made a commitment that financial literacy is important, that helping people to understand money is important. And I am so grateful.

Bright Dickson (25:14):

Can you remind our listeners where they can find you online?

Dr. Willie Jolley (25:17):

Go to, and get some free resources that we've got there for you. Audios and videos, and e-books. And then go to,, all my suite of sites. And then, follow me on all the social. WillieJolley on Twitter, TheRealWillieJolley on Instagram, WillieJolley on TikTok. I got it all. You got it, I want it. I want to be with you. I want to help you. I want to grow you. I want you to win every day. So, it's a joy to be here with Bright and Brian on this podcast. God bless you.

Bright Dickson (25:51):

Aw, thanks Dr. Jolley.

Bright Dickson (25:59):

So listeners, before we jump off, if you have a question, or an episode idea, please send them our way at and Dr. Jolley mentioned our many other resources like old podcast episodes, articles, financial tools. You can find all of that at

Brian Ford (26:17):

Yeah, and as Dr. Jolley mentioned, if you like what we talked about today, if you enjoyed this discussion, please be sure to subscribe. That way you know when our next episode drops. We'll be back next month, see you then.

Announcer (26:41):

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There’s a difference between being rich and being wealthy. You can be rich without being wealthy—and you can also become wealthy without being rich. One of the keys to building wealth? Having a vision.

In the second of two special episodes of “Money and Mindset With Bright and Brian,” featured guest Dr. Willie Jolley—a bestselling author, SiriusXM radio host, and motivational speaker—dives deeper into the topic of building wealth and how to reach your money goals.

Dr. Jolley and our hosts discuss:

  • Building wealth, no matter your income level
  • His strategy for giving, saving, and investing a portion of every dollar he earns
  • How to set—and get—your goals in life
  • The top money questions Dr. Jolley hears from listeners
  • Money mindsets that could help your marriage or relationships

Plus, Dr. Jolley shares some of his favorite tunes from his days as a jingle writer! You don’t want to miss it. 


If you enjoyed this episode, we’d love for you to subscribe, or give us a rating or review! Consider sharing it with someone you care about, too.

This content does not constitute legal, tax, accounting, financial, or investment advice. You are encouraged to consult with competent legal, tax, accounting, financial, or investment professionals based on your specific circumstances. We do not make any warranties as to accuracy or completeness of this information, do not endorse any third-party companies, products, or services described here, and take no liability for your use of this information.