How to start good habits and stop bad ones 

Brian Ford (00:09):

Welcome to Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian. A podcast that discusses the connections between good financial habits and positive psychology to help you find greater happiness. I'm Brian Ford, head of financial wellness at Truist. I'm joined by my co-host and friend, Bright Dickson, Truist's, resident expert in positive psychology. Howdy Bright.

Bright Dickson (00:29):

Hey, Brian. I am so excited about the topic we're about to discuss. As we wind down 2024. I think it's safe to say that many of us look to the new year as a time to reset, and this often starts by creating new habits and letting go of old ones that maybe aren't serving our needs. But how exactly do we accomplish this? To help us figure that out, we'll be joined by Sarah Hays Coomer, a national board certified health coach, Forbes Health columnist, and the author of several books, including The Habit Trip, which focuses on ways to positively change behaviors.

Brian (01:06):

Yeah. Creating good habits in our everyday life and finances is important to our well-being. If we can create positive habits now we can set a path for positive results for years to come. I'm looking forward to hearing to what Sarah has to say. Let's get this party started.

Bright (01:23):

Let's do it.

Brian (01:30):

Today we are joined by Sarah Hays Coomer. Sarah is a Mayo Clinic and national board certified Health and Wellness coach who helps others form positive wellness habits. She writes a health column for Forbes Health and she's the author of The Habit Trip, which focuses on behavior change. She has also authored two other books, Lightness of Body and Mind, and Physical Disobedience, which focuses on strengthening our bodies and routines in service of what matters most to us. Sarah, welcome to the podcast.

Sarah Hays Coomer (02:02):

Hey Brian. Thanks so much for having me. And hi Bright.

Bright (02:06):

Hey, Sarah. We're so happy to have you. And this topic of creating good habits is something that I think everyone can relate to in some way. So first, I think we should maybe take a step back and define some of our terms. So can you explain what a habit is and maybe how it differs from a feeling?

Sarah (02:25):

Yeah. So habits, like you say, everybody can relate to them. They're really woven into the fabric of our lives. They carry us through our days without us being necessarily aware of them. So a feeling is an emotional state of being or reaction to what is going on around us. And then habits often flow from the feelings. So a habit, if you look it up in Encyclopedia Britannica, is actually defined as any regularly repeated behavior that requires little or no thought and is learned rather than innate. And there are two really important pieces of that definition that I think are helpful for people to understand. The first is that habits require little or no thought. They're happening, they're automated. They're happening without us being aware of them, which explains why it can be really difficult to change them. And then the second part of it is that habits are learned rather than innate, which in my experience working with clients, it's a hopeful thing because it means that over time you can actually work to change and build and create new habits if you have the tools to do so. And in my experience, it's actually a lot easier than people make it out to be. So I know we're going to talk about some of that later. But they're really two different things and the habits flow out of the feelings that we have throughout our days.

(03:48):

So that's one piece. And then the part about understanding how it works, there's what I call an anatomy of a habit. And these have been explored deeply throughout pop culture. So there's originally was Charles Duhigg published The Power of Habit, in which he identified that there are really three key parts. There's cue, which is the trigger that makes a habit happen, and then there is a response, which is the habit itself, and then there's a reward, which is the thing that you're getting out of it that makes you want to return to it again and again and again. So we'll talk a little bit more about that. And James Clear came in later and published Atomic Habits I guess just three or four years ago. And he inserted another little piece of that, which we'll talk about later, and what we can do with that, how we mold it like clay.

(04:39):

So if you can identify what your feelings are when they're happening, how they're happening, and then how you are responding to them, then I think today's conversation is going to be really helpful in starting to pull that apart and empowering you to start making some different decisions.

Brian (04:54):

Cool. Okay, Sarah. So now that we understand what a habit is, I'd like to ask a more technical question related to finances. So how can good financial habits positively shape a relationship with money?

Sarah (05:06):

So if you think about what is the point of money for all of us, really, it's about stress reduction, it's about freedom and flexibility in our lives, and it's about security. And all of those things can impact our physical health, our emotional wellbeing, and also our financial wellbeing. So when we understand how habits interact with money, then we can use them as an expression of our personal values. And I know you all have talked about this a lot on the podcast. About how the ways that we prioritize how we use our money, we might not all have as much coming in as we would like, but we do have power and control over what we're going to do with the money that we do have. So the decisions that we make can lead to anything from generational wealth, to having the lifestyle that we want, to travel to being able to take care of our bodies or our loved ones, and also the ability to contribute to the causes that matter to you, whether that be charities or religious organizations or wherever you want to share your money. And so when you're able to make those choices about money in ways that feel natural to you and easy for you, then it just reduces the level of stress that we have, which then reduces the number of impulsive decisions that we're making, whether that be around money or about health and well-being.

Bright (06:33):

That's really interesting. And I want to take a second to go back to what you were saying around stressors and stress responses and those feelings. Once you recognize what those are, which is sometimes easier said than done I think, you can create new positive connections, so you rework it. But how do you recognize those stressors and how do they impact the decisions you make and particularly the impulse decisions?

Sarah (07:05):

Yeah. So the feelings that we were talking about before do often lead to stressors and then we make choices based on those things or we have habitual things that are happening that can either increase or decrease our levels of stress. So it's really helpful to start to discover when X happens, then Y happens. These are the patterns that I'm in. So when you're in a rational conversation like we're having right now, it can be easier to tease those things apart and find out what they are. So you can do that with loved ones, you could do that with a financial advisor or a psychologist or somebody. But it's also really helpful to clue into your body and to recognize that the stressors that either are recurring or are new in our lives show up in our body. And when we're able to listen to those feelings that we have, whether that's like, oh, my shoulders are going up and my neck is really beginning to hurt, or I'm queasy, or that old back pain that I've had for a long time is really coming back and nagging at me, we can begin to listen to those and have them begin to inform the choices that we're making.

(08:20):

So the feelings themselves and then the physiological responses that we're having to them are really important clues. And I think a lot of people spend a lot of time talking down to their bodies and telling their bodies what they should be doing in any given circumstances. And that applies to finances as well. We have a lot of ideas about what we should be doing and taking the actual actions in new and different way is a different thing. But the clues that are coming from the body and the awareness, a lot of times it's rooted in judgment. So there's a psychological term called unconditional positive regard, which Bright you are probably aware of. So if you are lucky enough to work with a therapist or-

Brian (09:03):

I'm not.

Sarah (09:04):

Oh, okay. So yeah, if you are-

Brian (09:07):

New to me. This is great.

Sarah (09:09):

So if you have a great therapist or you have a great parent or a mentor or even a dear best friend who creates a safe space for you to come and just regurgitate all of the crazy and all of the upset and all of the impulsive thoughts and things that you might think are ugly or might be judged by the world, and that safe space is there where they just hear you and there's no judgment and there's no repercussions for that. If we can start to build that unconditional positive regard in our own responses to our own thoughts and to the ways that our bodies are processing stress, then we're in a different position to respond to it. So it doesn't send us into a guilt spiral where we're like, "I'm trying to do this thing and I'm failing and I'm trying and I'm failing and I'm trying. And what's wrong with me?" So if we're able to just view it with this unconditional positive regard, recognize what it is, and then have tools and response to it, then we're in that position of power that I was talking about before.

Brian (10:11):

Yeah. This is good. I think I get it. So we can identify our stressors and then we're better aware of our responses. We can then take a more measured approach to making decisions. And those decisions could be relationship to how we spend and save our money. So we can identify our stressors and our responses to form a positive financial reaction to that. Sarah, let me ask you this, how can forming positive financial habits then positively impact our physical and mental wellbeing?

Sarah (10:44):

So we were talking earlier about how money allows us to reduce our stress, to increase our security, and to give us a sense of freedom and flexibility. So if the decisions that we're making and the habits that we're building methodically to support our financial wellbeing also serve any of those other aims so they can be stress reducers, they can increase our security or our freedom, then it gives us the ability to allocate money and our time and our energy toward things that really matter to us. So if you think about how you're spending money on certain things ... So for example, in terms of physical wellness, I am a health coach and a health journalist. So I have spent 20 years talking to people about how they're choosing to take care of themselves and the amount of finances that people put into various diet schemes, fitness schemes, gym memberships, things like that. If they sit back and question, are these things actually serving my values? Are they connected to my values? And I know that you all have past episodes where people can really sort out what those values are to help them identify those. That's really, really important to go back to those and figure out what those are and then to make sure that the choices that we're making about money are serving those ends. That's a key first thing.

(12:15):

And then if it needs to pivot, if you need to make changes on that front, what are some of the things that feel the best for you in your financial rhythms and routines right now? And then what are some of the things that are nagging at you that you really know are not productive or not connected to those values? Then you can start to again, identify those and then figure out exactly what you want to do about them and get whatever support that you need to do that. But it really does begin to impact both physical wellness, emotional wellness, and financial wellness.

(12:49):

And there's another thing that I think is useful that Bright I've heard you talk about before, which is the hedonic adaptation or the hedonic treadmill. Which is this idea that we continually are searching for something that's going to make us feel better. And so we go out and we get online and we start following all those Instagram pings that are telling us to go buy the new bra or get on the new fitness plan or whatever it is that they've targeted you for. It's really easy to go down those paths and to get into retail therapy and things like that where you're going on and you're shopping and you're spending all this money that you may or may not have. And it's going to boost your happiness level, your hedonism, your joy and pleasure for a little bit, but over time, you're just going to float right back to your baseline level of happiness or upset. This is also important to know that this is true for sad, frustrating traumatic events as well. People do tend to return to that baseline level. But I have seen over the years that when people really start to root into those daily rituals and routines that they have, it can change that baseline level over time. So it's not that it's immovable, it's just that if we can get a boost, if we can get a ping of adrenaline from these things that we're choosing to buy-

Brian (14:16):

I love this idea because Bright has talked about this hedonic treadmill. I love this. I love applying it to finance. So everything that you've said I need to rehear. And I love this idea of this set point going up, but I do like the idea that we can move that set point, but it's tough. I think that's fascinating.

Sarah (14:36):

Yeah. It can be tough, but I think it's easier than people think. So that's why we're going to get into some of these tools later as we go on because I just think that people really underestimate what's directly around them that can help them begin to elevate their happiness and their joy, which then makes those impulsive decisions that they're making about their finances a lot easier to counteract.

Bright (14:59):

And as you were talking, Sarah, I was thinking about if we're using fitness metaphors here, which seem apt and talking about the hedonic treadmill, there's a treadmill where you're just going and going and going and you hit your little peaks and valleys and great, but you've also got to do strength training. That's an important part of this too. And the strength training is really what raises or lowers that baseline. And I think we can think about that strength training as getting grounded in your values, aligning how you spend, how you save, how you invest to those values, and that's how you gain that overall strength. But it takes a lot of self-awareness. I think that's another baseline here is being aware of where you're spending your time and your money and making it align with your values. That's what drives feelings of happiness and then a positive change in your overall state of wellbeing and I think that's really critical to take home.

(16:04):

And thank you for explaining it to us, Sarah. I think that was a really good explanation of how this all fits together. So when we come back, we're going to talk about ways you can work to adopt positive habits. So stay with us to hear more of our conversation with Sarah Hays Coomer.

SEGMENT 2

Bright (16:31):

We've discussed ways to adopt positive life and financial habits with our guests, Sarah Hays Coomer. So now that we have a foundation of understanding what habits are and how there are more than just an action because they can impact our wellbeing and our finances. Let's get tactical. So Sarah, what are some of the tools that we can use to create good habits?

Sarah (16:55):

So what you were saying earlier before the break about how you can start to elevate that sense of positivity and of feeling good in your life is fundamental to how we start to build habits. So I have a quote in one of my books where I say, no pain, no gain is bull. No action, no traction is more like it. So if you need a catchphrase, that's a lot more helpful. So we want to be able to do something about this so we're not just sitting around thinking about it and feeling bad and feeling frustrated with ourselves. And there's this idea that to create a new habit, you need 21 days or you need 30 days, or you need seven days depending on who you ask. And the research has really shown that that's not true. There's no set number of days that you need in order to build a new habit.

(17:46):

What's more important about it is that the new thing you're trying to do is creating a positive association. So you have a positive feeling about it. If you're trying to run every morning at 5:00 A.M. and you hate running and you hate getting up first thing in the morning, if you do that for 30 days, the only thing you've done is cement your association with hating that thing. So we want to first of all understand that any new habits that you're building should be rooted in joy, they should be rooted in pleasure. You should be getting some immediate satisfaction out of trying to build that thing.

(18:23):

So I love starting with finances on this because there's such a direct obvious way to automate your savings for example. You can ask your employer to take a certain amount out of your paycheck every time and just deposit it into your retirement account. So that's something that can happen without you thinking about it. That's that automated response. And so it can be really difficult for smart, functional people to understand why when I want to automate something behaviorally, do I struggle so much? And then they in particular can get really just hard on themselves about that. So if we can understand that there is a way to approach behavioral health in the same way that you approach financial health, and we need to come at it from this very reasonable state that we are in right now, where we're up here in our prefrontal cortex, we are thinking clearly. You don't want to try to get into it when you're in the middle of a difficult moment.

(19:23):

For example, let's talk about a classic one is somebody who's like a new parent who gets through the day, they're working full time, they're taking care of the kids, they put the kids to bed, they shut the door, and they leave the kids' room and go directly to the fridge and take out the ice cream and go to the TV and eat the ice cream. That is a very specific moment. You've got the cue that we were talking about earlier. This is how a habit works. The cue is the kid is asleep, the routine is grabbing the ice cream. The reward is that sense of relief and relaxation that you have on the other side of that. The problem is the next morning you wake up, you feel sluggish, you feel heavy, you feel frustrated with yourself. Maybe you feel a little queasy and foggy in your head. So we want to get into that flow of that moment. And you can do this with your finances as well. So if you're doing that instead of the ice cream, you're reaching for social media or you're reaching for retail therapy, then it's that same trajectory.

(20:28):

So James Clear in Atomic Habits brought in another thing in between the cue and the routine, and that is a sense of a craving. So you have this, I've put the kid to bed and I want to go get that ice cream. So I actually believe there is something even smaller inside of that. That is the place where all the power lies in making some of these decisions. It's the moment when you are feeling that craving and you're moving toward it, and you want to create an interruption. And I have a little catchphrase for this. I call this the AID approach. So AID stands for awareness interruption decision. So you have the awareness, oh, this is a routine that I have, and you want to create an interruption on the way to the fridge while you're in the middle of that craving. And I like to help my clients build something that I call a gap ritual here. So this is a physiological interruption for the flow of that habit.

(21:39):

So I have had people use everything from laying upside down on the sofa with their legs up in the air to get their head upside down. I have people use a plank position or a single push-up. I've had people eat an ice cube or wash their hands or step outside and take a deep breath. Something, anything to hue your body to get you out of this lizard brain amygdala response where you're on autopilot interruption which brings you back into the conscious mind so that you can then begin to make a decision. Now, in order to do that, you have to have options. You have to have a series of things that you can choose from that will also give you a sense of reward, which is the key part on the other side of the decision. So if you can in advance when you're in that rational head space, take a look at what could happen on the other side of that decision. Give yourself a series of options.

(22:40):

In our example, instead of getting online and shopping in the evenings or grabbing that ice cream, then you could take a bath, you could take a walk, you could call a friend, you could read a favorite magazine, you could put on an audiobook or a podcast that you love and get on a treadmill for a few minutes. But it doesn't have to be like, I'm going from super destructive to super healthy. There are lots of things in between. If you're eating a bag of chips every night, then maybe you want to try ... The decision is to choose air popped popcorn or something like that instead. You still have the crunchy, you still have that snacky satisfaction, but you're able to do it in a healthier way.

(23:20):

And that moment when you're making that decision, I think it's really important for people to understand that you really have three choices there. You can go down what I call the war path, which is the path that a lot of people are going down most of the time. So that's the one where you do the thing and you fight with yourself and you feel bad about it, and then you wake up the next day feeling bad and sluggish, and then you reach for the ice cream again because it gives you that sense of elevate, that joy and that peace and that pleasure. But you're fighting with yourself and it's a really negative place to be. War path.

(23:54):

You can take the pleasure path. I call this the pleasure path. I put it in quotes. Because choosing the ice cream does seem like it's pleasurable and so if you can do it on purpose rather than in this like, I'm not going to look at it, I'm just going to do it. I'm not going to pay any attention to it. I'm going to choose it. I'm going to choose it on purpose, and then I'm going to see if it actually feels good or if it feels bad. And what all of a sudden I find that people will choose it, they lose all of that guilt that they had about it. I even will have them all assigned ... I actually had somebody that I assigned once, I want you to eat an entire pint of ice cream every night until we meet again before you come back. And she came back and she was-

Brian (24:41):

Is that my assignment?

Sarah (24:42):

Yes. Take it. If that's your problem, then that's currently your assignment from your health coach. And she came back at the end of that period of time and was like, "I'm so sorry. I got halfway through it and I knew I was going to have to do it again the next night so I just stayed the other half for the next night." So she basically cut her consumption in half because she lost that sense of, well, I'm not going to do it tomorrow, so I'm going to do it all today. And that just happens over and over and over again. So the pleasure path allows you to just really dive into that unhealthy choice that you're making to decide if A, it's serving you, or B, if the dose of it is serving you. So then you can start to create a real relationship with that habit and also with your body. Or you can go down a change where you're really exploring this menu of options on the other side of that decision.

(25:39):

You never know what you're going to run into there. You have to play with it. But if you give yourself that option, you bring yourself into that conscious mind with the gap ritual enough times you're going to get bored, or you're going to get curious, and you're going to want to try one of those things. And over time, you're actually teaching your nervous system that there are alternative ways to get that pleasure, to get that peace and that sense of relief.

Brian (26:07):

Yeah.

Bright (26:07):

Yeah. I just want to say-

Brian (26:07):

I want to-

Bright (26:11):

Yeah. We both want to talk about it. But one of the things that I love about this, Sarah, and what you're saying is that there's almost an embedded sense of play in what you're talking about. There's this sense of try interrupting it here. I'm thinking about my little brother putting his kids to bed and then just dropping into a pushup and how funny that would be. Number one, I'd like to say it, but also just that change in the little things. Instead of going from I'm an ice cream junkie to the world's fittest person, you got to drop a push-up somewhere between those two things. So I think that's really cool. I just wanted to say that. Brian, I'll hand it to you. I know you've got comments to questions too.

Brian (27:00):

No. I just love this conversation. I think it's fantastic. We've said a few things that I really like. One, before we even started talking about the AID Sarah, you were talking about how finances can be a little bit different from our health. And I've tried to point this out to people that we can automate things from a financial perspective, which isn't always as easy with a health perspective. I've often thought I love automating my savings. I love automating my bills. I love automating the way I invest in my 401K. I make that decision once and then boom, and then I get that pleasure feeling every time I see it add up and I see it go. So I love that. I wanted to make that distinction, which you already did, but I wanted to clarify it, and I think that's very cool.

(27:41):

But I also just love this conversation because I'm a firm believer in living life on purpose, being conscious of the way we go about things and the decisions that we make. Not just being on autopilot. I read these articles, whether it's a psychology article or something, talking about how most of my decisions are made for me and I'm on autopilot, I literally get offended and I'm like, no. I know that's true. I know I'm on autopilot a lot of the time because our subconscious takes ... But I love this idea that it doesn't have to be that way at least all the time. And so I love that AID approach. Awareness interruption decision. It really gets me wondering. I know we talked a lot about the physical side of things and our health, but how can we apply this to finances? Give me just maybe what gap ritual could we put in place to help us stay on a good track from a financial perspective? Can we dive into that just a little bit financially?

Sarah (28:38):

Yeah. Absolutely. And I just also want to point out that what you were saying about purpose is really interesting to me. A lot of times when you ask people, what are your values? What is your purpose? Those are huge questions that can be really difficult to answer, and people can shrink away from that. So when you make the distinction between having a purpose and being on purpose are two different things.

Brian (29:04):

That's right.

Sarah (29:05):

So using this technique to do things on purpose, even if you don't really know what your bigger purpose is or you're still working on that, this can give people really actionable ways to move forward. And as far as the gap ritual goes, that really is a very personal decision. I have ... This is so silly. We have video here, so I can show this. But I have one of these head scratcher things that sits on my desk. And when I am having a difficult time making a decision or trying to interrupt something, I'll just put this on my head. And it's again, just a physiological clue that I have the power to make a decision right now, which in and of itself is a successful thing, even if I'm choosing the old thing that I'm trying to get away from so that I can continue to see if it's working for me or not.

(29:54):

So for a financial decision, a typical one, people are living under a lot of stress and they tend to turn to shopping a lot of times to make themselves feel better. So if you can start to build a gap ritual of any type ... Again, something that is immediately accessible to you at any time. So say you're on your phone and it's late at night and you have a tendency to just press buy. And what you want to do, the habit that you're trying to change is to wait to make that decision until the morning. Then you can create a gap ritual, choose something, anything that works for you and insert it and see if you can start to strengthen that muscle to cue your sympathetic nervous system that the way to solve this, the way to feel better right now is to make the decision to wait until the morning instead of making the decision to press buy. Then you're in that position of power to make that choice, and then you can get up in the morning and really make a healthier, more rational decision, which then is going to stress you out less down the line, which is going to make you less likely to turn back to those old bad habits again.

Bright (31:02):

Sarah, can I just tell you, I'm buzzing that you're saying this because as you were saying that, I realized that I implemented a gap ritual for just that thing years ago, which is that if I'm lying in bed and scrolling, if I see something I want, but I'm having like, ooh, that talk in my head of should I, should I not, I take a screenshot and then that just goes to my photos and then it's like, okay, it's there if we need it tomorrow or whenever, but it's not on its way to me now. And that's been hugely helpful, and I have a ton of screenshots of cute stuff.

Sarah (31:42):

And that's a physical action. To take screenshot is a physical thing. Yeah. That's so cool. I love it.

Bright (31:51):

I'm doing it. I'm doing it.

Sarah (31:52):

Yes.

Brian (31:52):

I'm convinced even outside the financial realm, if my wife and I are having a discussion and maybe I get triggered with something and I go into war path, I'm dropping down and doing a pushup. Let's go. My wife's going to be like, "You're crazy."

Sarah (32:13):

No. But you can build those things. And it's really important to understand that it's not just interrupting bad behaviors. You can also build positive, new healthy behaviors from doing things like this. I have a routine in the evenings where I have ... I had frozen shoulder for many years and I couldn't lift my elbow above my shoulder. And I used to be a gymnast and a dancer. I love moving. All of my mental health is rooted in my body. And so the identity of someone who could not raise their arm up over here was just not okay with me. So I started a process of every day, every day, every day. And I used physical therapy stretches to get my arm ultimately all the way up over my head, and then took it a step further so that now I have a nighttime routine where I am standing up in my bedroom, I sit all the way down to the floor, I push back all the way back up into a full bridge, back bend, and then I sit up and then I stand up without the use of my hands.

(33:19):

And I do this every single night. It takes me 15 seconds. If I do it every single night for the rest of my life, then I'm an 80-year-old lady who can do a full bridge and who can also get up off the ground without using my hands, which is a huge indicator of health. So if we can find these little things that you can begin to build toward goals, especially if they're rooted in your identity ... I am someone who loves to travel, someone might say. And so what are the things that I need to do financially to make that possible? And then what are the daily little rituals and routines that are either adding to that or taking away from it, and how can I use these gap rituals and the AID approach to help support those goals?

Bright (34:04):

And that is so intentional. You're starting with who I want to be and what I want to be able to do well into the future, and you're backing it up into these micro moments like you're talking about the 15 seconds before bed. I think that's so cool.

Sarah (34:20):

And it's also pleasure too. Pleasure and joy. Has to be pleasure and joy. Even so small. And so often habit change I feel like is in control and manipulation. So flipping that script can also be really helpful.

Bright (34:35):

Yeah. That's so smart. So you talked a little bit Sarah about how we hear all these, it takes seven days or 21 days or 30 days or whatever, and you're saying it's not so much the days, that it's rooted in joy and pleasure and identity and that it's consistent. But in general, what should people expect? There's something here about it going from starting with intentionality, but it hopefully becoming in some ways autopilot, right? That's what we're going for with the good habit. Because can't think about everything all the time or we explode.

Sarah (35:13):

Well, that's the definition of a habit. It's happening without you thinking about it.

Bright (35:16):

Right. I know there's no days, but how long should we expect to stay in intentionality?

Sarah (35:27):

I think people are surprised by how short it can actually be. You're not forever going to be walking around at the grocery store like I'm going to my gap ritual. So I'm choosing the healthy thing instead of the unhealthy thing. How boring and annoying to live that way. We're not all going to live that way for a long time. But so many of us are living in a state of guilt and frustration when it comes to making these changes. So when people get that sense of power and that recognition that, oh, I recognized the choice was being made and then I made the choice, and whether it was the old thing or it was the new thing, it already is giving you that positive feedback loop. So you already have this sense of satisfaction and autonomy. I have the ability to make a choice. That discovery only takes a few times in my experience. It's that yuck of being in the moment and trying to make a different choice and making it from a place of power and joy rather than frustration and guilt.

(36:37):

And so that is starting to create that positive feedback and that openness to sense whether that old habit actually feels good or not. And then as far as the building of the habit itself, I would again stress that the making of the conscious choice is the success. So that doesn't take very long. Then you're teaching your nervous system about these alternatives and to get into a place where it's rooted like it's fully autopilot, that after you put the kid to bed, you are whatever it is that you choose. You're getting in the bath. It just depends on how good it feels to you. If it feels really amazing, it's probably not going to take that long. If it's something that's a little more uncomfortable, you're saving for travel and you're trying to stop buying plastic junk off the internet so that you go on a fabulous trip somewhere, they're a little bit harder to break free of. But if you're replacing them with something that feels good, it doesn't have to be that hard and it doesn't have to be a fight. So I think people are genuinely surprised by how quickly they're able to do that, at least to get into the habit of pausing and taking a decision.

Brian (37:55):

Yes. Sarah, this has been such a wonderful conversation. We all know that we need healthy habits, but I think having a step-by-step process that helps us think about our behavior gives us a roadmap for change. Your insights and processes certainly hit home with me. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Sarah (38:14):

Thank you so much for having me. It's a really fun conversation and I think that the work you all are doing with the podcast is just so important to help people understand how physical and financial and mental and emotional well-being are all woven together. I'm really grateful you all are out there doing the good work.

Bright (38:29):

Thank you, Sarah. And we're grateful for you too. And I'll just say, I'm going to be thinking about the AID approach a lot. And I've had three ideas of little things I can do to change some of my habits. And so yeah, thank you personally and professionally. We're so glad you were able to join us.

Sarah (38:48):

Thank you. It's so fun. And I think your focus on the idea of play is also just really important to make it a playful process.

Bright (38:55):

Yeah. And it's rooted in you got to make it joyful. A lot of habits are for the short-term pleasure, but there are other pleasures and so pursue those. Thank you guys.

Sarah (39:09):

Thank you for having me.

Bright (39:16):

That's it for this episode of Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian. We hope you found some inspiration for starting new financial and wellness habits. Thank you so much to our guest, Sarah Hays Coomer. If you'd like to learn more about Sarah Hays, visit her website at sarahhayscoomer.com or you can search for her on Forbes Health at forbes.com/health. She's also on LinkedIn. Thank you for listening, and thank you as well, Brian.

Brian (39:41):

Thanks Bright. You can listen to other episodes of our podcast and also find great articles and tools at truist.com/moneyandmindset, or just Google Truist Money and Mindset. We'll be back soon with more episodes that are designed to help you boost your financial confidence. We'll catch up with you next month. See you then.

(40:04):

This episode of Money and Mindset with Bright and Brian is brought to you by Truist.