Episode 33: Is an executive coach right for you?

Oscarlyn Elder:

You'll find leaders in all walks of life, in the corporate C-suite, but also on a volunteer board at a family foundation or in public service. Leadership in any setting is a skill that can be enhanced through executive coaching. That's what we'll be talking about today. I'm Oscarlyn Elder, co-chief investment officer for Truist Wealth, and this is I've Been Meaning To Do That, a podcast from Truist Wealth, a purpose-driven financial services organization. We appreciate you listening. The term executive coaching covers a lot of territory, and it's also often misunderstood. Today, I'm joined by two experts who will help us clarify what executive coaching is and what it is not. Jenni Marsh is the director of consulting at the Truist Leadership Institute, and Amalia Jansel is senior executive consultant also at the Truist Leadership Institute. Thank you so much for both being here. 

Amalia Jansel: 

Thank you for the invitation. Happy to be here. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Yes, thank you. 

Jenni and Amalia, will you share with our listeners what is the Truist Leadership Institute? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Thanks, Oscarlyn. It's actually a very special place. Our campus is beautiful in Greensboro, North Carolina, and the work we do here on campus, and we do travel to our clients often as well, is to inspire and build better lives and communities through better leadership. And I love that we're able to work with individual leaders and teams, like I said, here on campus, sometimes in classroom settings, sometimes in their setting and even virtually, we do a lot of our executive coaching virtually, in order to help them have deeper levels of self-awareness, it expands their capacity and effectiveness and their leadership. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Amalia, will you speak to Truist Leadership Institute's overall approach? 

Amalia Jansel: 

This was the wow factor for me when I joined the institute about six years ago. The institute has a rich history, first of all, over six decades of history in different forms, and it's done that by approaching leadership as an art and as a science, and has done it successfully. We have a research team that has done prolific work here, and all of our programs that Jenni has just described, all of them are grounded in research. But also, we provide this space for exploring and for disrupting as well to ultimately partner with leaders to find ways of inspiring their teams, their organizations, their communities. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

And I'm going to ask you both, would you share something about your personal journey and how did you develop a passion and expertise in executive coaching? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Yes. I have always been one who loves to help and support people, a background in counseling, I've led teams for 30 years and a couple of those decades were in healthcare. So I came to financial services about seven years ago and it was actually during COVID. A lot of our work here is in-person, and during COVID, we couldn't do some of the classroom activities that we do, and it opened up a new opportunity to learn more about and grow in the area of executive coaching. And so, I spent the early COVID time really investing in my own education and growth and found that I loved that particular modality of support for leaders, and it was flexible and agile. I could be anywhere in the United States, actually anywhere in the world, and partner with leaders in that way. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

And Amalia, how about you? 

Amalia Jansel: 

Pretty much all of the lessons that I've learned in my life and in my career have led me here. But there was a very specific moment about 20 years ago, I was pursuing a clinical degree here in the United States after I had been transitioning from a career in corporate and also from a different culture and geographical space, and I was discovering this amazing world of understanding the behaviors, the emotions, the feelings, all these things that motivate us, how and when and why to act. And I thought to myself, what if I take all this knowledge about human behaviors and motivations behind them and apply them to the business world? 

I thought I had discovered something, honestly. And I went to one of my professors who had been an executive and he said, "Amalia, I hate to burst your bubble. Actually, this field exists. It's called organizational development, and it sounds like you're interested in executive coaching." So he gave me four conditions. He was, first, you need your own executive coaching experience to understand what you're getting yourself into. Second, you need to get your own leadership experience or go the research route, and then you also need to get gray hair. You can't do executive coaching before that. So I fulfilled all of those conditions and I'm here now. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Well, thank you both for sharing about your personal journeys. Let's dive into executive coaching some more, love for you all to define it for us and help us understand exactly what is it, why do people do it, and maybe why do people who aren't corporate executives need it? 

Amalia Jansel: 

We see it as a partnership, and it's a partnership that is deeply personal and is also tailored to the person who is undergoing coaching. So people might experience it as a coach holding the mirror to them and they see where they shine, but they also see where they don't, and what we really value here is also the why. Why do I shine here? Why don't I shine in this way? So there is this immense pressure of having all the answers and having it all together, and what executive coaching offers is this space in which leaders can come and unpack everything, all of their successes, all of their failures, and ultimately just finding new ways of thinking and finding hope to reframe old beliefs sometimes. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Well, Jenni, I have a question for you. So some people might hear the term executive coaching and they're thinking business coach, but I think those two items are very different. So can you help us understand, help our listeners understand, how might executive coaching be distinct from business coaching? 

Jenni Marsh: 

We run into this a lot, this confusion with these words, even more words than those two. It's really different than the role of consultant, of business coach. In business coaching, the role of the coach is to impart wisdom, even in counseling, to diagnose and to know and to impart this wisdom, that business coach knows, they've been in the role before, they can offer advice and guidance to the coachee. 

But in executive coaching, it's really different, we are partners, and when you all were just talking about the mirror, we're standing beside the coachee and we're both looking in the mirror, but maybe they weren't seeing that part over there. And so, we can help them to understand... They're familiar with the pain, but they don't see it clearly. And so, maybe we use assessments sometimes to help bring clarity to that mirror and light to that mirror to see aspects of it that were previously vague to them or unknown, and then they decide what they want to pursue. And the coach helps through inquiry, asking powerful questions, to help the client see more about their problem, more about their pain, more about the opportunities to move forward. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

So business coaching often involves very specific advice related to business strategy, business execution, it's about the technical elements within the business, whereas executive coaching, it really is about an internal journey, it's about helping someone gain a different perspective, maybe expand capabilities in certain areas so that they can elevate their leadership. 

What makes a great executive coach? Are there qualifications? Are there life experiences that folks should look for? 

Jenni Marsh: 

People can have a desire to help, but unless they have the training, it's easy to veer outside of the role and the boundaries that are most helpful in coaching in order to be with someone well. And so, we are certified, through the International Coaching Federation, and Amalia and I have each logged hundreds of hours, over 1,000 hours of coaching. We've completed educational offerings, classes that are required. We've written out transcripts, of course with permission from our clients, and had folks audit those for the competencies and ethical guidelines that are required by the certifying board, and we've passed exams, a lot of things that go into this training. 

I also think real life experience is important. I'm aware of the pressure, I'm aware of the loneliness even of leadership, and having that perspective allows me to be with my clients in a way that I think would be difficult had I not had some of the experience myself. And then, constantly doing my own work. If I'm not constantly doing my own work to understand my own blind spots and cultivate curiosity for myself and growth for myself, then I tend to be limited in the ability to help and be with clients. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Amalia, what would you add? 

Amalia Jansel: 

Part of it is just being aware of your own beliefs and your own biases, as you mentioned. Another part is just being aware of where you can actually help and where not. So for example, during the executive coaching process, some other needs might emerge, and if you know me as a coach, I can only operate within these boundaries and I'm recognizing that there is a need for, for example, coaching on some subject matter expertise, then I can recommend my client to maybe get in touch with a business coach. Sometimes it can be because the conversations are so deep, other aspects can surface, such as some experiences in the past that are still experienced as hurdles for the client, for the leader to move on, and maybe there is a place to recommend therapy. Therapy has more of a healing purpose than just deep exploration. 

You mentioned the training. So one thing that a strong training as an executive coach gives an understanding of the Code of Ethics, and us as certified through the International Coaching Federation, abide to the ICF Code of Ethics. Confidentiality is really important, and pretty much all the boundaries necessary to understand the type of relationship that you have as a coach. And finally, something that I value is the balance between empathy and courage. I think as we coach leaders that have a lot of positional power, they sometimes don't get the pushback that it might help them to be more efficient in their leadership, to show up better, and we are there to give this push and I think it takes courage to do that, and at the same time, to do that with empathy, because the leader is in a vulnerable position in executive coaching. So I love that balance. 

Jenni Marsh: 

Yeah, I might just add on passion. We didn't say that- 

Amalia Jansel: 

Yeah. 

Jenni Marsh: 

... but we love our clients. We love working with our clients, it fuels us and our team. Amalia and I are here, but we're part of a team, we represent a whole team doing lots of coaching and we love it, we love the work. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you all have given us a very solid grounding in the fundamentals of executive coaching. Later in the episode, we'll talk about how this kind of coaching benefits organizations and family businesses. But when we come back in a moment, we'll start at the individual level, how coaching helps one person at a time. 

Amalia and Jenni, I know you work with both groups and individuals. Let's talk first about coaching from the personal perspective. When someone is seeking out this kind of coaching, what are the most common reasons that they do so? What is the why that you hear from people? 

Amalia Jansel: 

This is a great question. I have this way of categorizing them as leaders who seek executive coaching and leaders who are encouraged to do that. So somebody might seek executive coaching because they are in a new role and they want to have a strong start, because they already know what is challenging for them and they want to address that. So for example, maybe leading through relationships is not their forte or thinking strategically is not their forte, so they want to address that. 

And finally, you might have leaders who are starting with a new team that has some very complex dynamics going on and they need some extra help in tackling that. And then, you have one of the categories that bring us great joy, which is those who want to pursue continuous growth and see executive coaching as a space in which they can do that. And the second category, leaders who are encouraged by their managers, their mentors, to seek executive coaching, because both their potential and also some of the hurdles that might get in the way of their potential is visible to the others. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

And Amalia, I'd love to share with our listeners that you and I have worked together before. So I was really the lucky recipient, if you will, of the opportunity to work with you through the Truist Leadership Institute, and when I think about my why and how that developed, it really was a convergence of factors, many of which you just named. So I'd had an epiphany that I thought I could be a chief investment officer, I had collected experiences throughout my career that made me at least a candidate for that. I had a supervisor and a leader within wealth who was really supportive, but felt like I had opportunity and some challenges that I needed to overcome.And so, working with you really gave me the space to take that step back and to work on myself and to figure out what I needed to change, what I needed to tap into, to help my career continue to grow. So those reasons that you gave really resonated with me, so I appreciate you sharing that. 

We talked earlier about how an executive coach is different from a business coach, though they may be sometimes confused for each other. It sounds like an executive coach might also be confused with a therapist at times. Jenni, can you help us understand how might they be similar and how might they be different? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Yes, absolutely. We do hear a lot of times from our clients that they sense our relationship feels like therapy. Therapy is very different than coaching. In therapy, there's a treatment plan, there's a licensed professional, the therapist is guiding and directing that relationship. In coaching, it's a true partnership. As you were just talking about. You had a goal, you shared it, and then Amalia met you there and began to unpack that together, so you were directing that relationship. The commonality is safety, confidentiality, vulnerability, that's common in both relationships, but executive coaching, very different than therapy. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

So safety, confidentiality, is the similarity, but coaching, there is a different tenor to that relationship overall. Coaching is one facet of leadership development, does coaching typically alter a person's leadership style or is it more a matter of focusing and amplifying that leader's existing capabilities and influence? And Amalia, I'd like you to take on that question. 

Amalia Jansel: 

I think that it's both. By amplifying an existing influence, you also open the door for other ways in which you can achieve that, and it's just going to show maybe as different types of leadership in different situations. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Through my experience working with you, one of the things that I learned was that my comfort zone leadership approach likely would not enable me to be successful in whatever new leadership challenges I had. So I had to learn where I had some deficiencies and think about how to fill those gaps, how to behave differently, because the challenges were going to be different, and I feel like I've lived what you're saying there. What role can an executive coach play in career development overall? Is it broad, as in long-term goal setting, or does it get more detailed, by, for example, helping to set timelines for specific actions? Jenni, how do you think about that? 

Jenni Marsh: 

It depends on the goal of the client, but our cadence for each session is action-oriented. So each session comes with a problem from the client, what do you want to focus on, inquiry, and then the coach prompts a commitment to action. So each session has that. I worked with a client who was early in their career and thinking about how to progress, sort of like you were thinking, but they were much earlier. And so, we spent time thinking about all the important aspects of this next stage, how to ask for that, what they wanted. At the other end of career growth, I've worked with clients who are leaving their career, just as difficult and just as important to think about and plan for. How do you leave a legacy, how do you pass on to the next generation or the next leader behind you, whoever's coming next, and how do you create your next season outside of the career for a successful transition? So I would say all different stages of career growth, all different increments of action on the timeline. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

What you're saying is that it really is a customized journey that involves action, it's situational, and I'd love to hear the action element to what you shared, because this podcast is really grounded in the belief that the lack of action is often what separates us from achieving our goals. What you're saying there is it's a very active engaging process that's customized to the coachee. 

Jenni Marsh: 

And directed by the coachee. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

And directed. 

Jenni Marsh: 

What kind of action do you want to take? What's the action? When could you do it by? What will success look like? 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

One way that leaders may get tripped up in their roles is by hidden biases, which we've talked about on this podcast before, or preconceived notions, that's something that all of us leaders or not are subject to. Can you talk about how executive coaching might help build the self-awareness that can aid folks in avoiding that pitfall? 

Amalia Jansel: 

Let's break them down between biases and beliefs. I know I've heard conversations about biases, and if we can just think of biases of these mental shortcuts that help our brain make really fast decisions, we all have them, and some of us are more likely to fall prey to biases that are impacting our effectiveness on decision-making. So for example, optimists are more likely to fall prey to confirmation bias. I'm in a meeting, I have a great idea, there are 10 other people there, I'm listening to them, and by the time we got to the fifth one, I've already got all the information that tells me that everybody agrees with me, and my brain is going to stop hearing everything that is disconfirming or even challenging my idea. So just helping our clients to understand that, to understand how our mind is functioning, and then to be aware of what type of bias they might have and how to mitigate the effects of that. So for example, if that's what my brain is doing, let me be intentional about checking in with somebody who can give me a pushback. 

In terms of beliefs, again, this is the space in which we help leaders explore their beliefs and how they have helped them historically to achieve results and how now maybe they are getting in the way of their effectiveness. So a belief, I can do it all by myself, great initiative, great accountability, has led to great results, but now it gets in the way of me as a leader empowering other folks. So understanding how that belief there is not inherently wrong or right, it simply, in this particular space, is not helping me. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

That's really powerful, Amalia. The goal of individual-level work often in many cases is to improve the functioning of the organization of one kind or another. When we come back, we'll talk about how companies and nonprofits, foundations and others engage with and benefit from executive coaching. 

Amalia and Jenni, sometimes organizations will engage in an executive coaching program on behalf of their senior or mid-level leadership. How are programs typically structured and what are their goals? 

Jenni Marsh: 

We actually use a framework to engage with organizations and think about the business life cycle that they're in to understand the challenges that they have and the solutions that would be most helpful for them. Sometimes they're established, but they need to maintain agility, not just rest, but that disruption comes in so that they can innovate and be agile, or they're also undergoing leadership transitions. And so, when they ask us to coach leaders to deal with change, we're able to really impact the organization through the impact of their individual leadership. As they become more effective, they create more effective individual relationships, then we see the impact on teams. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

I would think that whatever prompts an organization to start working with executive coaches initially, one benefit over time might be that deeper leadership edge with more people within that organization who have at least started to focus on these kinds of leadership skills. Is that usually an explicit goal, and how can executive coaching help build this leadership pipeline? 

Amalia Jansel: 

It's interesting, because it might not be explicit, but we get to it through explorations. Sometimes during [inaudible 00:24:58] for an executive coaching ask, we get to conversations about the specific event or the pain point that leads them to contact us, and then we expand the conversation to how do we prioritize executive coaching among other leaders in the organization, even different levels, how do we align that with maybe different types of leadership development approaches, programs or triadic coaching, for example. So that can be a door opener to strategize on which ways are we engaging other leaders in the organization, other teams. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

I'm sure there are many different varieties and formats of executive coaching, and you all have highlighted a few of those, but there's going to be an investment of time or money, there's a significant resource investment for whoever's sponsoring this effort. How can an organization measure the return on that investment? 

Jenni Marsh: 

This is a question we hear often, and our research team is prepared to partner with us and our clients towards some specific outcomes that our clients would like to measure. So sometimes we do that very individually for them. But always, there's data, be it anecdotal, their feeling, their experience in executive coaching, or the hard data that we see in engagement scores, turnover, organizational results, any of the key indicators that are being measured in teams and in organizations. And we also hear people say they feel more ready for change, more ready for the hard things and the transitions that are coming their way, they're better able to meet adversity and ambiguity, they're better prepared to navigate the transitions coming their way. We see them used often also as a utility player, because of their ability to just transition well and lead new people, that organizations and organizational leaders put them in positions where they need strength in leadership. 

Amalia Jansel: 

May I add something here? 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Absolutely. 

Amalia Jansel: 

Sometimes the executive coaching process can be a place in which a leader might just realize that that's not the right role for them, the current role that they have, sometimes even the current culture in which they have that role. So I think that that's a cost cut for all parties involved when the leader decides, this is not for me. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

I'm thinking about my executive coaching experience with you, Amalia, and the ultimate impact of that experience, and it's intimately connected to the role that I hold now as co-chief investment officer, and Truist Wealth's other co-chief investment officer and chief market strategist is Keith Lerner, and he was going through his own parallel executive coaching experience, this was before we were cos, and he's approved, he's given me permission to share this element, but he was also in executive coaching. 

And then, we were both promoted into the co-roles, which we all know in the business world, co-anything is very difficult to pull off, it often does not work. We had both been grounded in this really impactful executive coaching experience, independent on our own journeys, and then we were able to work with you collaboratively, Amalia, to really establish the foundation of how we would be together as co-chief investment officers, and it really, I think, put us on a different trajectory. It enabled us to be very intentional around our communication, around our behaviors, and helped amplify our strengths and helped us identify where we may have challenges and how would we tackle those challenges. That was really important for the organization, we had not had a co-structure before, at a pivotal moment of really some transformational change. The power of executive coaching years later, I think, has proven itself. 

Amalia Jansel: 

Yeah, thank you. It was an amazing partnership with the two of you and with your manager, it led to a lot of creativity and it's a gift that keeps on giving because of the way in which you two have been able to amplify the role and the impact for the organization. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

One kind of organization that can benefit from executive coaching is one we also talk about on this program quite a bit, and that's family businesses. We'll come back in just a moment to talk about succession planning and other ways coaching can help family-based organizations function well. 

Jenni and Amalia, we talk about family businesses and dynamics on this program frequently because they're incredibly fascinating, they're also often complicated. Are family organizations particularly well-suited to executive coaching, and if so, why? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Oh yes, we would say, we absolutely love this aspect of our coaching work. We love it because what we've found in our work with families is that there's a lot at stake and the reward is high. When people get into the work, do it well, the results are manifested not only in the organization, but in the family. As complicated and high stakes as it is, the rewards are far-reaching, and we don't get to see that in a non-family organization. 

We're coaching several different adult-child pairs, but in one particular situation recently we have, I'm coaching the parent who's in transition, Amalia is working with the adult child who will follow this parent. We occasionally meet together. The person that I'm working with is at the later stages of their career thinking about what's next and developing that part of their life, and the person Amalia is working with in quite a different place and thinking about the business and the innovation there. But they're in a very committed relationship that they're protective of and they understand could be at risk in this transition and all of the decisions that they're making together for the business. So our role is to support their conversation, to disrupt and help escort them through those difficult parts, sensitive parts, emotional parts, of the conversation, the relationships, and the decisions that they make together and leverage their unique strengths. 

Amalia Jansel: 

I'm just in awe of how they prioritize the relationship, and at the same time, are able to navigate the tension between making that work and helping that thrive and also continuing to build their business. It's just inspirational, and it's not as often that you get to see that in our experience. It's just a joy to see this new leader creating, crafting his art and science of his own leadership, just very inspirational. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Family businesses often aren't only run by family members. How can coaching help to harmonize the insider and outsider dynamics that might exist in that type of situation? 

Amalia Jansel: 

The question of fairness comes up when it comes to working with a team that has both family members and outsiders. Jenni, I know that you've worked currently, have you been working with a company that has both, what's been your experience? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Yeah. A lot of times, the family are in leadership positions, but this particular client I'm thinking of, there are a couple of family members in leadership positions, but they're also sprinkled lower in the organization. So these senior teams are made up of what we might say inside the family and outside the family leaders in this organization, and it's very difficult because fairness comes into play, trust. What's fair for the business might not seem fair to the family, which loyalty, which allegiance should I side with at any one time? And so, to sort out the relationships, to keep the relationships intact, honestly, while the business grows and makes the best decision can be really complex. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

So it sounds like part of what you all do in this situation is perhaps to help people with the language that they need to navigate. I know from our work here at the Center for Family Legacy, which is part of Truist Wealth, we often find that when families focus on values, generations may have the same values, so they may hold dear the same values, but often, much of the conflict comes around the expression of those values. The experience with a coach is that you can help folks develop some of the skills, hopefully stronger skills, in navigating that conflict that may be rooted in values expression, whether it's helping with the common language or just having awareness of where the executive is sitting and where their biases may be. 

Amalia Jansel: 

And it helps that we use assessments and assessments tend to depersonalize the conversations around values, because here it is, we are using the same assessment and we are looking at the results and interpreting and it's very helpful. You don't get to talk in terms of, oh, you avoid conflict and I confront it head on. We talk in terms of strengths that you bring to the table and sometimes strengths that you overdo, it's a different language. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Well, this has been a great discussion and I think we all know quite a bit more about executive coaching now, so thank you, Jenni and Amalia. When we come back, we'll wrap up with some suggestions for putting this knowledge to use and hear about what Jenni and Amalia have been meaning to do themselves. 

Jenni and Amalia, thank you again for being here on I've Been Meaning To Do That. As we wrap up, are there any resources you can suggest to our listeners who might want to learn more about executive coaching or may want to engage for themselves or their organizations? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Yes, we are ready to partner with folks who are ready to grow, and especially in this way, but in many ways, grow their leadership and their teams throughout their organizations. If they need another resource, the International Coaching Federation is available and has certified executive coaches available there as well. We've talked about our belief in the importance of certification. We do have a whole team here at the executive level, we have a delivery team at the mid-level, so we're well-prepared to partner with folks who are ready to grow. We also have a research team, as Amalia has said, and on our website, we have purple papers available for people to read and learn from there, and we have a presence on LinkedIn. So there are many ways to connect with us and engage in the work that we're doing. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Let me share your address website, it's truistleadershipinstitute.com, and that's a great resource where folks who are interested in learning more about executive coaching and about the capabilities that we have at the Truist Leadership can find out more information. 

This conversation has been awesome. Before we wrap up, I have one more question for the both of you. We have a tradition of asking our guests, what's the one thing you've been meaning to do that you haven't done and that you're willing to commit to do now? Jenni, you're up first. What's your I've Been Meaning To Do That item? 

Jenni Marsh: 

Okay, so I'm a beekeeper and I have been meaning to create an experience for a team that marries the lessons learned in beekeeping with team dynamics. There's so much there and I've been thinking about it and I'm going to do it. I'm going to create that and deliver it in August, actually. So thanks for the prompt to bring an idea that's been in my head for a while to life. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Jenni, I look forward to hearing how that goes, and maybe at some point in the future. I can participate in that learning experience. That sounds fantastic. 

Jenni Marsh: 

There's honey and wine tasting involved. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

There you go. That sounds wonderful. And Amalia, what do you intend to hopefully finally move off your plate to check off? 

Amalia Jansel: 

Estate planning. I was on a flight a few months ago and the plane was hit by lightning, I thought I was going to die, honestly, and in those moments, I thought, dear God, if you save me, I promise I'm going to do estate planning, the first thing that I'm going to do when I get off the plane. Of course, I didn't do that, this was a few months ago, so I commit now publicly to that. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Amalia, that's a very important to-do item, and a number of the guests who've been on I've Been Meaning To Do That have pointed out the need to complete their estate planning, so I wish you all the best on that journey. The key is just taking that first action, just call an attorney, reach out to your advisor and start the process, hopefully today, just make that call. 

Amalia Jansel: 

Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad that I'm not alone. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

You're not alone, definitely not. Amalia and Jenni, thank you so much for joining me today. Executive coaching is a topic that isn't just for C-suite executives, you've made that very clear today. The skills it can enhance, apply to people in many different walks of life and in many different roles. So I really appreciate you both sharing your expertise and experience and your passion. Your passion comes through very strongly, very clearly, and we know that you love the work that you do at the Truist Leadership Institute. 

Jenni Marsh: 

Thank you so much. We have had a great time with you today talking about all this. 

Amalia Jansel: 

Yeah, thank you so much, Oscarlyn, for creating this space and for sharing your own experiences. I really loved being on this podcast. 

Oscarlyn Elder: 

Listeners, I want to thank you as well. If you liked this episode, please be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and tell friends and family about it. If you have a question for me or a suggestion for this podcast, email me at dothat@truist.com. I'll be back soon for another episode of I've Been Meaning To Do That, the podcast that gets you moving toward fulfilling your purpose and achieving your financial goals. Talk to you soon. 

Speaker 4: 

Oscarlyn Elder is an investment advisor representative, Truist Advisory Services Incorporated. Any comments or references to taxes herein are informational only. Truist and its representatives do not provide tax or legal advice. You should consult your individual tax or legal professional before taking any action that may have tax or legal consequences.